This was written by John O'Neil, which he posted in our Facebook group, about the different types of death defiers, that I found very interesting, to say the least....

"Since I began having some dreaming experiences with Don Juan showing me how to use elemental energy within sorceric dreams, I realized that the four elements were not only associated with a sorcerer's energy but also had a lot of bearing on the types of death defiers that exist.

The 1st type of death defier is the kind that Castaneda wrote about, and they are associated with the element of earth, but here are two types, the "southern" "white-hand" variety which are social, and the "eastern" "black-hand" variety which are not. The eastern tribe are also the most dangerous type, because they only value power, and will exploit, harm, kill or capture anyone they feel inclined to. Even though they call each other "brother slave," make no mistake, they are slavers who possess slaves which are definitely not their brothers. They are sociopaths as far as I can tell. These sorcerers use the insect form as their primary vehicle of awareness, invented magical passes, and are called simply death defiers, as they are the most common type. Their insect-like intent is what causes their hands to turn black when they do an ancient type of magical pass. The white-hand death defiers seem to do everything in the opposite way of the black-hand, and have recreated very modern settings in their shared dreams, which make them far less weird to interact with in dreaming.

The 2nd kind of death defers are the ones associated with the element of air, and they are called the "god-defiers." They mostly use powerful animal forms in dreaming, but they are unique in the universe in that they actually kill their own dreaming bodies, over a period of what seem to be several reincarnations, leading to their final all-powerful form. As far as I know, they keep to themselves and nothing dares mess with them. They Have seven remaining energy bodies. Their favorite animal form is a sabertooth cat, which tells me they were active before those animals went extinct. I discovered these sorcerers when I came across the remains of their dreaming bodies at the edge of the dreaming universe. It was a horrible enough scene when I thought that it was a natural death defier graveyard, but took on a whole new level when I found out it was the result of self-inflicted pruning.

The 3rd type of death defiers are the sorcerers associated with the element of fire, and they are opposite of the god-defiers in that they add a 9th energy body by merging with an inorganic being. When you see them in dreaming, they look like the classic "genies" which have a human form on top and colored glowing smoke instead of legs. They are the friendliest beings I ever met in dreaming, and very large, and probably the strangest things I've ever seen in dreaming. Their world is impervious to the Eagle's force of death upon our gaps. They only die when they choose to, by traveling to another hollow world in dreaming, one which is very small and acts as a shield to the Eagle's life giving force. This results in a very quick end to any being that wakes themselves up there, so don't do that. I would recommend a visit to the genie world to any sorcerer who has decent dream control, it is something to cross off your sorcery bucket list.

Finally, the 4th kind of death defiers are connected with the element of water, and they look very human except for their metal-flake skin. They are called "Atlanteans," and are probably the easiest of all the death defiers to get along with in dreaming, as they are usually very hospitable, not to mention ultra-cool in every way. They are hostile towards the black hand type of death defiers, for good reason, and will kill them on site. Because of this ability to vanquish black-hand sorcerers that they have, along with their human-like form, their world is my favorite place to hang out in dreaming when I feel like some company. To get there, you have to intend to dream your way outside of our universe and into theirs. If you succeed, you will first see what I call the "gate world," the place you have to go through to get to their beautiful world, and it is definitely not a place you want to hang out in for long, because it is filled with dark-brown vapor winds that seems to blow at gale strength continuously. There is a small encampment there with a few Atlanteans standing guard in what look like rustic alien teepees. After they check to see if you pose a threat, they will then usher you into their real world."

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My question after reading this is if there are other types of death defiers? --- such as the one described by Mikal Nyght and others, in which you create the Double, which lives outside of time, and  is therefore able to amass all of the knowledge you need for attaining the Immortal condition -- from many life times and thousands of years -- who becomes your Teacher who guides you to make the shift of your assemblage point, from who you are in 3d, to the Immortal Double -- becoming immortal that way -- which if I understand correctly makes you independent of any group and you live in your own world, which you create just as you did your Double -- which may or may not include others of your choosing. Is this type of death defier included in one of the four above, or would this be a different category all together?

So I spent my last lifetime in a Monastery in Tibet, there I learned a technique of going through the Death process...without actually dying.....then earlier in this life hooked up with my Teachers and began the practice again.  I am a poor student and Cheat a lot, but in doing so I also learned a lot.  One thing I learned a lot about was the...as I call it, the Construct.... I believe this is what Don Juan called the double...as I have found nothing else written anywhere which relates to it. 

The "construct" is something almost all of us have, ....consider all the energy of thought and emotion that goes into defining "who we are"...over many lifetimes this is a lot of energy.  This "definition, this astral energetic definition ...according to Law must eventually manifest in some form..... this Creation is like a mirror image of WHO WE WERE......, as who we are in this very moment is advanced some beyond it because it hasn't caught up yet. So we all have these if we've been around a while.   

You hear folks talking about NDE's and coming upon the spirits of their dearly departed.... these are most of the time not that at all, but rather those folks's energetic reflections ...Constructs....Doubles?   During the death experience our Constructs (and I suppose during normal waking consciousness....they .... exist a little bit behind us....Mine is behind and to the right....Generally speaking when we "die" our momentum and focus is entirely in a forward....frontwise direction.

Now a rule I was given when going through the death process is to never be distracted by the Heaven and Hell Realms or the Constructs floating around and drawn to us by  the unique energetic expression of our desire nature.... Go straight ahead focused on the Light on the other side of what seems like a universe full of planets and constructs (the planets actually Heaven and Hell Realms. I was told to never pull into these. (which happens simply by focusing on them momentarily.. I cheated and learned the reason why.....these realms have what I call a momentum (time in our dimension) which suck you in and pull you along...and you forget who you were and it's like a whole new life that you believe to be all that is real..and time is different there, you can experience a lifetime there....in the blink of an eye "here"..My Teachers saved me.   But I'm here to talk, or question about the Construct...which is possibly the Double. 

Here's an interesting factoid....You know those things we call Ghosts......what these are is souls that turned back and gazed upon their Constructs....they pull you in to what you "were"...and you can become trapped there. Becoming a "Ghost". So I don't recall what Don Juan said about doubles, and what would happen if you were to see yours, gaze upon it.....because if the construct is the double, and you do this..... Not Good. My experience with my "Double" was not a good one. 

OH, yeah, another thing about them is that floating in their periphery, like a snake skin that has shedded off, is pieces that have no longer been fed the energy to maintain them cohesive within the doubles form....parts of ourselves that once were major in our definition and others definition of who we were....but no longer are part of that. So they are sort of still in orbit around the double, but fading. 

Well, my experience....... the worst choice I ever made, in fact one most mystics will tell you is impossible, went like this.  I was sitting in my girlfriends parents apartment, I had totally released my definition of the world and was gazing upon a fly flying....I was seeing it's entire existence, then my girlfriend walked in the door. As I looked at her I saw her past and FUTURES....as the future is determined by choices and I saw all the choices she would have to make, and the outcomes of these.... Then I saw her consciousness coming toward mine and meeting in the middle of the room, at that point she Freaked out and went into hysterics....when she calmed down she begged me to go back to "who I used to be"... Damn I loved her a lot, she later became my first wife....and because of my training in Dying and that process, and my knowledge of the Double..... I had the knowledge (I thought) of how to go back to who I was.  I was seeing all the choices she would come up against, and the ones that would allow her the speediest evolution, so I told her that I would go back to who I was....if she would "come to the Light with me".... I mean it would be simple because I saw all  the right moves, he heh.  She said, Yeah, she would.  So I went into the death process with the idea that if I looked back at my Double (that old definition that I was that was imprinted out there on the astral plane  in astral/etheric matter....I could pull it back into myself. So when I looked back I saw the shedded skin and thought, OK, that's who I was that I recently transcended...and that was floating off.  I gazed upon these old pieces of myself and they instantly became part of me. Then I came out of it, a totally different person.

First off I was totally psychic, I felt everybodies thoughts, feelings and infirmities for maybe a whole city block...and it turns out that our process of evolution, that process of defining ourselves happens in a very specific order. We add this, then this then this in ORDER. Well I pulled it all back totally out of order. I call this my Humpty Dumpty Episode.  My teachers who were very loud in telling me not to do this while I was doing it.....were gone....my ability to see her Path....was gone. I was a psychic mess and had to quit my job and move into a VW bus as far from humans as possible (When I was around people with mental or physical problems I would go into convulsions...like a kundalini thing, pretty violent. 

In order to deal with this I had to go "into the Light"..... the upside for them was they became healed...but I was getting thrashed. So we lived as far from humans as possible for a long time.... I finally figured out a technique to hold the psychic impressions at bay..... full well knowing it would manifest some major physical problems in the future for me...which it did.  Make a note, Blocking is not a good practice...But I had no choice, I would have to live in the world of humans and make a living. Anyway it took maybe 40 years for me to re-order my island back to where it was, so I could start the process of cleaning it up again.   

So, do you folks think the Construct is the Double..if not, how would you define the double, what creates it, where does it derive it's energy from...and also if not have you ever heard of the "Construct" I have spoken of ....as being called anything else.     OH, just a little tid bit, I met one of Don Juans students once..... WOW, a very magical dude. I don't know what his real name was, he called himself Pack rat.   That was quite an experience, ......I'll maybe write about that some other time.

Have any of you had any experience communicating with your Double?

I'm very new to working with my Double, but I have been communicating with mine with a Ouija board, with amazing results.

I asked my Double if I died right now, would we have a chance of attaining the immortal condition and he said, "No. You need dream training."

Also, one day I was reading in Darker Teachings Of The Immortals, and I came to a page where the author was talking about the one most important question that you have to find the answer to in order to become immortal. I looked away from my kindle for a few moments pondering what that question could be. Then looked down and discovered that my kindle had changed pages -- to somewhere way back in the book, to a page with the headline, "Who are you?" -- which was the answer to my question. It was impossible that I had done this myself as I was just standing there not moving. I would have had to flip back through all of those pages, one of two ways that I know I didn't do.

As I practice communication with my Double ...which I prefer to call my "Other" since I don't see my Double as a copy of me, but opposite sex -- who I "created" him to be -- but as I practice communication, I'm finding that I'm developing a more telepathic connection with him.

Anyone else have any experience or advice to share re communication with your Double?

Thanks for this forum! I'll have to look up Darker Teachings of the Immortals. I've never heard of it.

Welcome to the forum, Taijibum.

DTOTI isn't the most well-written book I've ever read, and I don't agree with everything the author says, but the one thing I got from it, to me is worth it's weight in gold ....much more than that actually. Maybe the information can be found elsewhere, but if so I haven't found it. Of course, I'm still learning - am discovering so much new everyday -- and experiencing lots of little synchronicities that confirm to me that I'm on the right path ....as I am finding hints of this truth in other writings which I didn't know about before. But they are just hints, not the full explanation laid out in DTOTI.

This book looks intriguing. I have just got a Kindle version that I am going to start reading it tonight. I will give some feedback once I have completed reading it.

The kindle version is what I have too. Awesome ....looking forward to hearing what you think about it! I don't agree with Nyght about everything he says, but the one thing I got from it was very important to me.