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Astral Projection And Lucid Dreaming / Re: Astral Projection and Astral Plane Travel
« Last post by Sea Daughter on May 20, 2018, 02:59:46 pm »Jeff, what would you say is the proper use of the astral plane?
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82
The Double / Re: The Double = Construct ???
« Last post by Sea Daughter on May 20, 2018, 02:48:15 pm »Jeff, I get that the "ancient sorcerers" are alive and well on planet earth. Most definitely. But the rest ....I'm not so sure about. That's okay ...I'm glad you are here and sharing your knowledge ....and yes --there seems to be nowhere else to discuss this topic.
One thing I've noticed in my life, is that whenever there is a conflict, there is always truth and false on both sides -- AND a unifying solution which takes the truth from both, and discards the false -- satisfying both with no compromise. I believe that is true of this idea as well.
If I am not mistaken, you are coming from the idea that since we got our "I self" from the Archons, then the only way to be free of them, is to go back to the way we were before -- meaning we must kill the "ego", our desires ....and our Double. It is the idea that in order to attain freedom, we must kill the thing we love most.
I'm not so sure that's true. I think there's a way we can have our cake and eat it too.
Or maybe I have misunderstood you?
One thing I've noticed in my life, is that whenever there is a conflict, there is always truth and false on both sides -- AND a unifying solution which takes the truth from both, and discards the false -- satisfying both with no compromise. I believe that is true of this idea as well.
If I am not mistaken, you are coming from the idea that since we got our "I self" from the Archons, then the only way to be free of them, is to go back to the way we were before -- meaning we must kill the "ego", our desires ....and our Double. It is the idea that in order to attain freedom, we must kill the thing we love most.
I'm not so sure that's true. I think there's a way we can have our cake and eat it too.
Or maybe I have misunderstood you?
83
Death Defying / Re: Trongjug
« Last post by Sea Daughter on May 20, 2018, 01:00:21 pm »Miriam, the technique you describe for moving one's CP into the young body ....could not this same technique be used to move your CP permanently into the Double?
How would one begin to obtain a good foundation in tantric yoga, or phowa? Are there any books or specific teachers you would recommend?
How would one begin to obtain a good foundation in tantric yoga, or phowa? Are there any books or specific teachers you would recommend?
84
Inner Healing / Using Negativity To Heal
« Last post by Sea Daughter on May 20, 2018, 12:53:06 pm »After realizing how much energy we lose when we experience negative emotions, I decided the other day that I didn't want to watch anymore movies or TV shows ....not that I watch TV, but I occasionally watch a series on Netflix.
Then I got to thinking ....why not use the negativity in those movies and shows to gain energy instead -- by recapitulating afterward, and also by breathing back in the energy lost (or use EFT) as I am feeling the negative emotions while watching?
It's my best guess that we feel the most emotional -- highs and lows -- over things which resonate somehow with our own energy ...past traumas and experiences that we may or may not be able to remember, so recapitulating the emotionally distressing scenes in movies should help to clear and heal our own past.
Then I got to thinking ....why not use the negativity in those movies and shows to gain energy instead -- by recapitulating afterward, and also by breathing back in the energy lost (or use EFT) as I am feeling the negative emotions while watching?
It's my best guess that we feel the most emotional -- highs and lows -- over things which resonate somehow with our own energy ...past traumas and experiences that we may or may not be able to remember, so recapitulating the emotionally distressing scenes in movies should help to clear and heal our own past.
85
Favorite Books & Movies / Draja Michaharic
« Last post by Miriam on May 20, 2018, 12:08:18 am »Draja Michaharic is a Bosnian-born, (father was Austrian) American author, occultist and authority on hoodoo.
He wrote many books ( Spiritual Cleansing: Handbook of Psychic Protection (1985), Century of Spells (1985), Practice of Magic: An Introductory Guide to the Art (1995), Magic Simplified (2002), Mental Influence (2002), Magical Techniques (2002), More Magical Techniques (2003), A Spiritual Worker's Spell Book (2003), Magical Uses for Magnets (2004), Magical Practice: Applying Magical Training To Your Daily Life (2004),...etc..)
One of the many books he wrote called "Immortality".. In this book writes about some supposed immortals he knew over the last sixty years working as a consultant in the field of the occult arts. He adds his comments on these methods, and writes also other methods that he have heard of for extending human life. There is also some information concerning medical research in the area of life extension...
What mostly triggered my interest is that after a very extended research on him i still can't find a single photo, a single detail about his personal life - even if many know and speak very highly of him.. - Is like he never existed.. Few things only.. like that he was publicly active till he was 90 years old and lived in New York City until 2002. After he moved to Philadelphia to stay with a former "chosen" student... Michaharic is now 106 years old...Born 10 April 1912..
You can look a bit inside the book here:
https://www.amazon.com/Immortality-Draja-Mick…/…/1430317515…
He wrote many books ( Spiritual Cleansing: Handbook of Psychic Protection (1985), Century of Spells (1985), Practice of Magic: An Introductory Guide to the Art (1995), Magic Simplified (2002), Mental Influence (2002), Magical Techniques (2002), More Magical Techniques (2003), A Spiritual Worker's Spell Book (2003), Magical Uses for Magnets (2004), Magical Practice: Applying Magical Training To Your Daily Life (2004),...etc..)
One of the many books he wrote called "Immortality".. In this book writes about some supposed immortals he knew over the last sixty years working as a consultant in the field of the occult arts. He adds his comments on these methods, and writes also other methods that he have heard of for extending human life. There is also some information concerning medical research in the area of life extension...
What mostly triggered my interest is that after a very extended research on him i still can't find a single photo, a single detail about his personal life - even if many know and speak very highly of him.. - Is like he never existed.. Few things only.. like that he was publicly active till he was 90 years old and lived in New York City until 2002. After he moved to Philadelphia to stay with a former "chosen" student... Michaharic is now 106 years old...Born 10 April 1912..
You can look a bit inside the book here:
https://www.amazon.com/Immortality-Draja-Mick…/…/1430317515…
86
Death Defying / Trongjug
« Last post by Miriam on May 19, 2018, 11:57:32 pm »There's a method called Trong Jug... It's a yoga practice to enter someone's body.
While trong-jug can be used to animate corpses, travel as an animal, and other trivial things, its primary use is giving practitioners virtual immortality. Trong-jug is the authentic living root of all vampire lore. Because the procedure is real, and lineage holders are active today, its implementation is always veiled under a thick coat of secrecy. Trong-jug is used this way:
Having identified a healthy young victim, the adept transfers his/her Consciousness Principal (CP) to that vicinity. Using erotic projections to loosen the target's own CP, the adept "hooks" it through a lower orifice and removes it, causing (brief) clinical death. The practitioner's CP then enters the victim's body through its crown chakra and stabilizes at the heart chakra. The adept's original body is now dead, but his/her mind functions through its newly stolen body.
Trong-jug is usually done when the lineage holder has grown old or diseased. In this way, (s)he can pass from an aged weak body to a young strong one in a (theoretically) never-ending series. Adepts in the West usually place all their assets in a trust fund that can be quickly transferred to the victim, thus insuring the continuity of their material gains once their new identity has been assumed. Targets (or I should say the bodies of targets) often alienate or lose friends and relatives because of their radically different personality.
Lineage holders also like to emphasize the difficulty of the technique, but in fact it is fairly easy for those who have a good foundation in tantric yoga, especially phowa. However, initiation and instruction from an authentic lineage holder is best and makes the technique readily available when it is required.
- Chinese Buddhist Encyclopedia ( http://www.chinabuddhismencyclopedia.com/en/index.php/Trongjug )
While trong-jug can be used to animate corpses, travel as an animal, and other trivial things, its primary use is giving practitioners virtual immortality. Trong-jug is the authentic living root of all vampire lore. Because the procedure is real, and lineage holders are active today, its implementation is always veiled under a thick coat of secrecy. Trong-jug is used this way:
Having identified a healthy young victim, the adept transfers his/her Consciousness Principal (CP) to that vicinity. Using erotic projections to loosen the target's own CP, the adept "hooks" it through a lower orifice and removes it, causing (brief) clinical death. The practitioner's CP then enters the victim's body through its crown chakra and stabilizes at the heart chakra. The adept's original body is now dead, but his/her mind functions through its newly stolen body.
Trong-jug is usually done when the lineage holder has grown old or diseased. In this way, (s)he can pass from an aged weak body to a young strong one in a (theoretically) never-ending series. Adepts in the West usually place all their assets in a trust fund that can be quickly transferred to the victim, thus insuring the continuity of their material gains once their new identity has been assumed. Targets (or I should say the bodies of targets) often alienate or lose friends and relatives because of their radically different personality.
Lineage holders also like to emphasize the difficulty of the technique, but in fact it is fairly easy for those who have a good foundation in tantric yoga, especially phowa. However, initiation and instruction from an authentic lineage holder is best and makes the technique readily available when it is required.
- Chinese Buddhist Encyclopedia ( http://www.chinabuddhismencyclopedia.com/en/index.php/Trongjug )
87
Astral Projection And Lucid Dreaming / Lucid Dreaming
« Last post by Jeff4freedom on May 19, 2018, 10:33:06 pm »Fun Subject
Back in 1970 I appeared like just a normal guy until one day I climbed a small mountain, Mt Helen, or Ellen...near Santa Cruz Calif.
Up to that point I had had no "spiritual or Magical inclination.
Well I sat on top looking around...it was so beautiful that I began to cry.
It was too beautiful and the thought of leaving there was painful so I closed my eyes to shut out the intense beauty.
Then a voice in my head said,
"Take it All in all at once, like use your mind like a camera."
I did that....... then my assemblage point drastically shifted.
Suddenly I was sitting on the outer edge of Creation, looking back in at this ....golden spiderweb where everything was connected.
No use talking about that experience because it was just too vast what was gleaned.
I came out of it totally different, I felt the trees and plants around me, like they were talking to me.
I went back down the Mountain and was guided by the trees to a bookstore in Palo Alto CAlif, called the Plowshare. Up to then I wasn't really a reader. But there was a room in the back called the seed center where I was guided straight away to books that were written by Teachers from my previous life....which living with very narrow parents /military Covert ops types....I had long ago denied.
The Teacher was from Tibet, the books were the Treatise on White Magic written by Alice Bailey under instruction from my previous teacher.
I also picked up,"the Light of the Soul...same author, which was a translation of the Yoga Sutras of Patanjili.
I went right home and started reading them.
That night began the first night of my "lucid dreaming".
I was in a place I ended up calling the 'White Hall", because everything was white, including the robe on the person who was teaching me there.
He was explaining to me what I had read in the white magic book that day
, and carrying it forward to the next "Rule".
Holy ****.
Every night for a long time I met him there, and he taught me the next lesson. But it wasn't just giving explanations, it was showing me the techniques...the rules for Magic.
These are not things you learn and put into your brain, they are rather experiences.....
It made it all very easy and real, then I was guided to a book on Tibetan Yoga and Secret Doctrines ...... and was taught these things alongside the white magic.
An interesting thing about the Teacher was I could only look at his hands, if I looked at his face...... I'd flash out of my body, into pure white light. It happened every time I tried.
So these nightly lessons and the daily practice of them became my life.
Then one night, the day before I discovered Carlos's books I ended up in the desert in a little adobe, possibly house/gas station.
There was a Teacher there, and my girlfriend/future wife was there as well.
The teacher was Indian.
There were quite a few people there, but they all seemed to me to be "tripping", which at the time meant ego tripping or in Don Juans terms...indulging to the n'th degree.
The Teacher was talking to me about amassing personal power, but like the other teacher in the white hall, every time I tried to look at his face, I'd dissolve into Light....but this time it was a pink light.
It happened quite a few times and I was sort of freaking out, being without my body in this pink light, so I kept calling out my girlfriends name and it brought me back.....until the last time.
Seemed like I was out there for a very long time.
I woke up in a bathtub with them pouring cold water over me.
The Teacher was there and asked me to take a walk in the desert with him.
This time I decided to just look at his hands. He was going to take me to a "place of power"... (interesting that the next day I found Carlos's books and Don Juan used the same language).
So we're walking out behind the small house into the desert and he's talking to me....I forget what. But then I asked him, Basically "what are you doing with all these Tripping people." His answer was two things at once. Out loud, for anyone to hear if anyone was there he said, "an oasis would not be an oasis without trees". But at the same time, in my head I heard him say,"rats always run to water". I'm still not sure what he was telling me. I thought I knew then...but I was an idiot.
That was in the beginning.
Much later the White Hall changed, and it wasn't just me, but others were also there in the background.
Years later it changed again, and I was with a group of people, the Teacher was not there...and the places we met and discussed things were now Ornate.....everything beautifully handcrafted. Some of the folks didn't look quite human and there were some weird animals there that looked like a cross between a monkey and a cat....and these were very intuitive animals.
I eventually accepted this as my "group" and it got very interesting some of the things that happened.
We were often being tested in wild and crazy ways, we met in old buildings that were in a village with cobblestone streets. In many of the meetings there were symbols of Light that appeared or were there, on the ground or roof of a building, sometimes White, sometimes green. I've not ever been able to recall the symbol when I was awake. OH yeah, and we flew everywhere...
Sometimes those giving us the "tests"...which were basically being put in situations, quite intense to see what we would do....these testers were also very different, Humanoid but..taller and bald....
In more recent years my lucid dreaming has often had me being an Eagle.
Very trippy because you see differently.
One time it was near here, flying over the river dragging my toe...seeing the houses lit up on the sides of the river, but most of the time, dozens of times it has been flying to a place in the desert. Arizona near Calif. border. There is a place with these tall pinnacle rocks, a group of people live there, they don't talk....very High folks.
I've been there so many times I could draw a map and finally went to Google earth to see if I could find it. I think I got very close. All the landmarks were there.
Another really cool time I was some type of dolphin. A small black type. Now that was exceptionally cool because of the way they "see" and Communicate. I mean I was seeing and communicating as they do....well, I was one of them. The seeing part was cool because of the way they perceive water....it's like the whole pod is one thing and the water is an extension of them, and the feeling of the water...the way it is seen is totally different than how we see....it was like seeing and feeling a joyful explosion of blue bubbles (for lack of a better descriptive term)..( i once was travelling in water as myself, and perceived it the same way).and their communication is psychic, They are like all parts of the one thing. Part of the group was questioning the route, as it was different then all years past, and the answer was that the water temp had changed and they had to follow the food which had shifted courses.... But the experience wasn't a human one....and it was very blissful.
Well that was just the tip of an iceberg to get this thread moving along.
It feels good to get some of this stuff out, being that this is all a part of myself I generally keep hidden.
Lifetimes of being burned at the stake and drowned will do that to you, make you kind of Paranoid and secretive.
Back in 1970 I appeared like just a normal guy until one day I climbed a small mountain, Mt Helen, or Ellen...near Santa Cruz Calif.
Up to that point I had had no "spiritual or Magical inclination.
Well I sat on top looking around...it was so beautiful that I began to cry.
It was too beautiful and the thought of leaving there was painful so I closed my eyes to shut out the intense beauty.
Then a voice in my head said,
"Take it All in all at once, like use your mind like a camera."
I did that....... then my assemblage point drastically shifted.
Suddenly I was sitting on the outer edge of Creation, looking back in at this ....golden spiderweb where everything was connected.
No use talking about that experience because it was just too vast what was gleaned.
I came out of it totally different, I felt the trees and plants around me, like they were talking to me.
I went back down the Mountain and was guided by the trees to a bookstore in Palo Alto CAlif, called the Plowshare. Up to then I wasn't really a reader. But there was a room in the back called the seed center where I was guided straight away to books that were written by Teachers from my previous life....which living with very narrow parents /military Covert ops types....I had long ago denied.
The Teacher was from Tibet, the books were the Treatise on White Magic written by Alice Bailey under instruction from my previous teacher.
I also picked up,"the Light of the Soul...same author, which was a translation of the Yoga Sutras of Patanjili.
I went right home and started reading them.
That night began the first night of my "lucid dreaming".
I was in a place I ended up calling the 'White Hall", because everything was white, including the robe on the person who was teaching me there.
He was explaining to me what I had read in the white magic book that day
, and carrying it forward to the next "Rule".
Holy ****.
Every night for a long time I met him there, and he taught me the next lesson. But it wasn't just giving explanations, it was showing me the techniques...the rules for Magic.
These are not things you learn and put into your brain, they are rather experiences.....
It made it all very easy and real, then I was guided to a book on Tibetan Yoga and Secret Doctrines ...... and was taught these things alongside the white magic.
An interesting thing about the Teacher was I could only look at his hands, if I looked at his face...... I'd flash out of my body, into pure white light. It happened every time I tried.
So these nightly lessons and the daily practice of them became my life.
Then one night, the day before I discovered Carlos's books I ended up in the desert in a little adobe, possibly house/gas station.
There was a Teacher there, and my girlfriend/future wife was there as well.
The teacher was Indian.
There were quite a few people there, but they all seemed to me to be "tripping", which at the time meant ego tripping or in Don Juans terms...indulging to the n'th degree.
The Teacher was talking to me about amassing personal power, but like the other teacher in the white hall, every time I tried to look at his face, I'd dissolve into Light....but this time it was a pink light.
It happened quite a few times and I was sort of freaking out, being without my body in this pink light, so I kept calling out my girlfriends name and it brought me back.....until the last time.
Seemed like I was out there for a very long time.
I woke up in a bathtub with them pouring cold water over me.
The Teacher was there and asked me to take a walk in the desert with him.
This time I decided to just look at his hands. He was going to take me to a "place of power"... (interesting that the next day I found Carlos's books and Don Juan used the same language).
So we're walking out behind the small house into the desert and he's talking to me....I forget what. But then I asked him, Basically "what are you doing with all these Tripping people." His answer was two things at once. Out loud, for anyone to hear if anyone was there he said, "an oasis would not be an oasis without trees". But at the same time, in my head I heard him say,"rats always run to water". I'm still not sure what he was telling me. I thought I knew then...but I was an idiot.
That was in the beginning.
Much later the White Hall changed, and it wasn't just me, but others were also there in the background.
Years later it changed again, and I was with a group of people, the Teacher was not there...and the places we met and discussed things were now Ornate.....everything beautifully handcrafted. Some of the folks didn't look quite human and there were some weird animals there that looked like a cross between a monkey and a cat....and these were very intuitive animals.
I eventually accepted this as my "group" and it got very interesting some of the things that happened.
We were often being tested in wild and crazy ways, we met in old buildings that were in a village with cobblestone streets. In many of the meetings there were symbols of Light that appeared or were there, on the ground or roof of a building, sometimes White, sometimes green. I've not ever been able to recall the symbol when I was awake. OH yeah, and we flew everywhere...
Sometimes those giving us the "tests"...which were basically being put in situations, quite intense to see what we would do....these testers were also very different, Humanoid but..taller and bald....
In more recent years my lucid dreaming has often had me being an Eagle.
Very trippy because you see differently.
One time it was near here, flying over the river dragging my toe...seeing the houses lit up on the sides of the river, but most of the time, dozens of times it has been flying to a place in the desert. Arizona near Calif. border. There is a place with these tall pinnacle rocks, a group of people live there, they don't talk....very High folks.
I've been there so many times I could draw a map and finally went to Google earth to see if I could find it. I think I got very close. All the landmarks were there.
Another really cool time I was some type of dolphin. A small black type. Now that was exceptionally cool because of the way they "see" and Communicate. I mean I was seeing and communicating as they do....well, I was one of them. The seeing part was cool because of the way they perceive water....it's like the whole pod is one thing and the water is an extension of them, and the feeling of the water...the way it is seen is totally different than how we see....it was like seeing and feeling a joyful explosion of blue bubbles (for lack of a better descriptive term)..( i once was travelling in water as myself, and perceived it the same way).and their communication is psychic, They are like all parts of the one thing. Part of the group was questioning the route, as it was different then all years past, and the answer was that the water temp had changed and they had to follow the food which had shifted courses.... But the experience wasn't a human one....and it was very blissful.
Well that was just the tip of an iceberg to get this thread moving along.
It feels good to get some of this stuff out, being that this is all a part of myself I generally keep hidden.
Lifetimes of being burned at the stake and drowned will do that to you, make you kind of Paranoid and secretive.
88
Astral Projection And Lucid Dreaming / Astral Projection and Astral Plane Travel
« Last post by Jeff4freedom on May 19, 2018, 08:57:40 pm »Dang I could write a few books in this category..... I have a lot of experience with astral projecting (not even by choice)...and astral plane travel (by choice).
First I'll define these two terms from my viewpoint.
Astral projection is simply separating the astral body from the physical and moving from point A to Point B, sometimes via intention, othertimes .....just however it works out.
There is very little purpose in this for the New Seers, in fact I'd say it is very counter productive.
Note the Name, "ASTRAL projection".
What is the astral body? well "Astral" denotes Desire/Duality, some seers call the astral plane, the plane of desire.... which is quite accurate.
Duality is cultivated to it's end point with the old seers, so for them this process could have benefits....but for the new seers it will only magnetize them more to their description....which it is their task to transcend.
So once again the student needs to determine if they are a new or old seer.
Now astral plane travel is different.
The astral plane is the realm we pass through when we die.
This is an intense place with very powerful attributes...... and dangers.
This is where the Double lives, this is where the "Heaven and Hell Realms" are.
This is where the yoga of the death state takes place.....
But should not be traveled without a Teacher,
it is after all the plane of desire, so we can be easily distracted there.
Gazing at our own Double there can halt our evolution,
just momentarily focusing on any of the realms there can pull us in to an "eternity" in one of these places (though luckily a blink of an eye in our time, if we can extricate ourselves from it....which is very difficult....)
So, for us that are the New Seers, if we have a teacher that understands that Plane,
we can gain very great benefit by traveling there.
The main rule is not to be distracted and to go...focus attention and intention on the Pure Light beyond the darkness and realms and constructs floating about. This is a difficult task as well if our "island: isn't very clean. As all the clutter on the "island" resonates at certain differing frequencies (that are counter productive to our progress)...and the nature of the realm will draw from the plane that which resonates in a similar frequency...... making cleaning our Island even more difficult as we pile the crap on deeper.
I learned a vast amount by travelling there, by following (sometimes) my teachers instructions....but I learned more by cheating......... however lost many , 30 plus years of my evolution by doing so.
At one point in time I was out of my body more than I was in it. Astral projecting all over the place, watching my wife cook diner, floating down the street...... It sucked, because I was always afraid I couldn't get back into my body...it was a problem..... I finally found someone that told me very thick black doses of Valerian tea would bring me back....it worked like a charm. But it was, after all, my "Cheating" in my astral plane travels that created the problem of being out of my body.....without that intention, for prolonged periods of time.
So, in summation.....
Old style seers might have some use for astral projecting.
To The New Seers, it is counter-productive.
For the New Seers, one of the fastest and greatest paths to personal power,
is found in the proper use of the astral plane, but again this is a very hazardous path without a Teacher that knows the ropes.
Thanks again for having this forum that allows the discussion of subjects rarely encountered or understood by the majority of humans.
First I'll define these two terms from my viewpoint.
Astral projection is simply separating the astral body from the physical and moving from point A to Point B, sometimes via intention, othertimes .....just however it works out.
There is very little purpose in this for the New Seers, in fact I'd say it is very counter productive.
Note the Name, "ASTRAL projection".
What is the astral body? well "Astral" denotes Desire/Duality, some seers call the astral plane, the plane of desire.... which is quite accurate.
Duality is cultivated to it's end point with the old seers, so for them this process could have benefits....but for the new seers it will only magnetize them more to their description....which it is their task to transcend.
So once again the student needs to determine if they are a new or old seer.
Now astral plane travel is different.
The astral plane is the realm we pass through when we die.
This is an intense place with very powerful attributes...... and dangers.
This is where the Double lives, this is where the "Heaven and Hell Realms" are.
This is where the yoga of the death state takes place.....
But should not be traveled without a Teacher,
it is after all the plane of desire, so we can be easily distracted there.
Gazing at our own Double there can halt our evolution,
just momentarily focusing on any of the realms there can pull us in to an "eternity" in one of these places (though luckily a blink of an eye in our time, if we can extricate ourselves from it....which is very difficult....)
So, for us that are the New Seers, if we have a teacher that understands that Plane,
we can gain very great benefit by traveling there.
The main rule is not to be distracted and to go...focus attention and intention on the Pure Light beyond the darkness and realms and constructs floating about. This is a difficult task as well if our "island: isn't very clean. As all the clutter on the "island" resonates at certain differing frequencies (that are counter productive to our progress)...and the nature of the realm will draw from the plane that which resonates in a similar frequency...... making cleaning our Island even more difficult as we pile the crap on deeper.
I learned a vast amount by travelling there, by following (sometimes) my teachers instructions....but I learned more by cheating......... however lost many , 30 plus years of my evolution by doing so.
At one point in time I was out of my body more than I was in it. Astral projecting all over the place, watching my wife cook diner, floating down the street...... It sucked, because I was always afraid I couldn't get back into my body...it was a problem..... I finally found someone that told me very thick black doses of Valerian tea would bring me back....it worked like a charm. But it was, after all, my "Cheating" in my astral plane travels that created the problem of being out of my body.....without that intention, for prolonged periods of time.
So, in summation.....
Old style seers might have some use for astral projecting.
To The New Seers, it is counter-productive.
For the New Seers, one of the fastest and greatest paths to personal power,
is found in the proper use of the astral plane, but again this is a very hazardous path without a Teacher that knows the ropes.
Thanks again for having this forum that allows the discussion of subjects rarely encountered or understood by the majority of humans.
89
Introductions / Re: Greetings To All!
« Last post by Jeff4freedom on May 19, 2018, 08:31:34 pm »I don't get it. I haven't read most of the folks you mentioned, just Don Juan a long time ago, which was very handy as I needed a Language to relate to others from my own experience..... which had a language that nobody I came across knew, so using Don Juans Language helped make it possible to talk about...... "sorcery" to folks interested. But this "Immortality", I don't get.
We are All Immortal.... so what is the need to seek it, we can't avoid it.
Does this mean staying in the same physical body and life....no thanks, that is counterproductive..makes evolution more difficult.
My first memories in this life, before I could even talk, were of past lives.
I have relationships with folks in this life that I shared past lives with, that remember those lives as well or better than I do.
I once met a guy, a wizard of sorts....who in this life in his youth, was present in my past life, the day I died (was killed by Chinese soldiers).... He remembered those moments better than I did, as he wasn't Blocking things that were very uncomfortable.
So he was able to teach me a lot, (that took me years to assimilate), because he was seeing it more clearly and hadn't blocked the most pertinent things as I had done.
So, we are immortal....
Learning to die to gain the most evolution was primary to my teachers teaching..... and my learning.
I mean immortal is sort of a relative term really, because what is it that we want to be immortal, what is it that we believe we want to be immortal.
Cause you see our evolution is circular, and though after thousands of years it does have what appears on one level to be an "end" point....that end point is like....hmm, like an archetype, a seed to a new beginning.
So yeah, we can carry on in a body for thousands of years,(changing skins periodically) and also transcend that for a length of time if we make that choice...and live more in an energy body..... but you know, thousands of years is pretty good..... But if we look beyond the physical and even energetic existence that we call us....... beyond that which we cling to .....and clings to us for thousands of years....something else goes on beyond that....and it all recirculates basically for eternity.
It should be noted though that "eternity" is also a mis-leading term, as the reality is ...... hmm, eternity is really like a chain of connected eternities. Some religion calls them Yuga's I believe.
You could say that an eternity is an incarnation of God....
but just like us
God Reincarnates....
so each life of God is another eternity.
And from what I've "seen".... our old selves carry over, sort of like pieces in the NEW DNA of the new Eternity.
Now I really dislike using that term,"God", because almost all of the ideas about that in mass consciousness....are way off the mark. Nevertheless it's the best way of describing it that I have.
So I am not sure what you refer to when speaking of seeking immortality......?
We are All Immortal.... so what is the need to seek it, we can't avoid it.
Does this mean staying in the same physical body and life....no thanks, that is counterproductive..makes evolution more difficult.
My first memories in this life, before I could even talk, were of past lives.
I have relationships with folks in this life that I shared past lives with, that remember those lives as well or better than I do.
I once met a guy, a wizard of sorts....who in this life in his youth, was present in my past life, the day I died (was killed by Chinese soldiers).... He remembered those moments better than I did, as he wasn't Blocking things that were very uncomfortable.
So he was able to teach me a lot, (that took me years to assimilate), because he was seeing it more clearly and hadn't blocked the most pertinent things as I had done.
So, we are immortal....
Learning to die to gain the most evolution was primary to my teachers teaching..... and my learning.
I mean immortal is sort of a relative term really, because what is it that we want to be immortal, what is it that we believe we want to be immortal.
Cause you see our evolution is circular, and though after thousands of years it does have what appears on one level to be an "end" point....that end point is like....hmm, like an archetype, a seed to a new beginning.
So yeah, we can carry on in a body for thousands of years,(changing skins periodically) and also transcend that for a length of time if we make that choice...and live more in an energy body..... but you know, thousands of years is pretty good..... But if we look beyond the physical and even energetic existence that we call us....... beyond that which we cling to .....and clings to us for thousands of years....something else goes on beyond that....and it all recirculates basically for eternity.
It should be noted though that "eternity" is also a mis-leading term, as the reality is ...... hmm, eternity is really like a chain of connected eternities. Some religion calls them Yuga's I believe.
You could say that an eternity is an incarnation of God....
but just like us
God Reincarnates....
so each life of God is another eternity.
And from what I've "seen".... our old selves carry over, sort of like pieces in the NEW DNA of the new Eternity.
Now I really dislike using that term,"God", because almost all of the ideas about that in mass consciousness....are way off the mark. Nevertheless it's the best way of describing it that I have.
So I am not sure what you refer to when speaking of seeking immortality......?
90
The Double / Re: The Double = Construct ???
« Last post by Jeff4freedom on May 18, 2018, 11:53:17 pm »Thanks for your quick reply.....
I see a lot to address here,
but I work from Home,
am 65 years old with a 7 year old....
and have a show on Sunday to get prepared for,
so don't have a lot of time.
Just working from home with a 7 year old,
and mine in particular......
is all consuming......
But, I was sort of led here, and we are responsible for what we know, and there are very few places I can share what I know and get even an inkling of understanding......
So I'll work on this in my spare time, he he, good one self..... what is spare time again.
Anyway, the subject of the Double alone is HUGE,
and I'm afraid there is just enough knowledge out there about it......
to confuse folks.....
and even in some cases put them in danger.
But to address all these things, I guess you would say requires a bit of a shift of the assemblage point.
It's been over 30 years since I ....experienced Don Juans books, so I might be short on the lingo, falling back on my old Tibetan Language for pretty much the same stuff.
I'm planning on getting some reading glasses as I haven't been able to find too many Large print Carlos books....and my eyes need help. so I'll catch up with that.
I see some very important...... points that need to be considered when discussing this,
and I see the ... obstacles that need to be overcome....
the obstacles in many cases caused by the fact that....
well, to put it nicely,
Carlos was a bit of an over mental idiot...
and he gleaned from
and threfore passed on from Don Juan
very much only according to his mental ability.
This is a common problem, people want to "figure it out" in their minds, study allied works, and compute the data they have inputted....
This stuff doesn't work that way.
Before we can really get to the "Construct" we'll have to address the difference between the Old sorcery and the new, because this was somewhat of a mis-understanding, or poorly computed data by Carlos.
The thing is we get the impression that the "old sorcery" was something from an earlier time, back in the Toltec or whatever days when things were different
before we new sorcerers became more enlightened.
But that isn't how it is.....
It all exists now, and what determines a persons place in that is simply their point in evolution.
Very few these days understand how human evolution works,
that it is a circular process,
not one of ascension, as in the old staircase analogy.
As the old Mystics said, first the circle turns one way....then returns back upon itself.
The "old sorcery" or whatever Carlos called it is what those on the first turn of the wheel employ,
and the "new sorcery" is what those on the reverse turn use.
And these are very different in Nature...and this is rarely addressed and Carlos and what I hear of some that have followed him, mish mash them all up so that...... it loses some usefulness for both types of sorcerers.
So the first and most important thing for students to learn is where they are on the wheel of evolution, otherwise their practice could be useless.....and or Dangerous.
This is for sure the case with what appears to be some ideas about the Double.
The old sorcery sought connection to the Double, believed it could aid them somehow..... their Direction you could say was one of cultivating the Double.
It is like any creation,
a building by piece being added to piece.....
and it's important to know that it is astral in nature and
....damn, there's things I can't say because they will just halt folks in their cogitating tracks......
The Double is created by all the energy and intention that goes into defining who we are within our description of the world, it is also co created by those who "know" us.
It's just basically a natural bi product of human evolution on the first turn of the wheel, for the Old Sorcerers.
For them to seek it out, and with it's "timeless" nature as you pointed out, they could possibly speed up their evolution (which bottom line is the goal of all sorcery, old and new) ....
But it's timelessness , hmmm.... well let's just say that our relationship with it dramatically changes when we become the New Sorcerers....
when we come to that point in evolution where our wheel reverses.
THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT.
The Double is created in astral and mental matter...
literally created out of all the energy that goes into defining us,
which was the task of the old sorcerers.....
And they perfected tweaking it and using it to connect with,
their Future Description (aiding their evolution).
(consider those words)
The New Sorcerers job is to dis mantle that description .
And this entails the dismantling of the Double,
well, actually that is just the natural bi-product of the Path.
I'm afraid Carlos was mostly drawn to the glamour of the power of the double and was himself on the first turn of the wheel, so the information he gleaned about the Double and passed along,
was only in regards to it's relationship with the old sorcery.
For a New Sorcerer to seek the double....is a disaster.
I mean we (new sorcerers) are here to dismantle the island,
to release the description....
and yet this is exactly what the Double represents.
It is energetically magnetized to "our collection",
to our description.
For the old sorcerers, because of it's "timelessness"
(which isn't the best word because it's existence depends solely upon what we and others submit to it in the process of our evolution, and it has an end point)...
it can only help us ..... culminate in our description.....
which is the goal of the old sorcerers....
which is the end point of the first turn of the wheel....
the epitome of what the old sorcery was meant to obtain.
But once we have done that,
once the wheel begins turning back upon itself,
we become the new sorcerers and our job now is basically the opposite of what it was before,
now we dismantle the description....
and the Double fades.
I think a lot of folks might mix up the Soul with the Double, because they are very similar.
Like you say the Double isn't an exact image, I mean it's an astral/mental reflection of us..... form in fact isn't really a matter of consideration.... We humans tend to get boggled up in the whole Form thing and lose sight of what motivates the form.
Well this is about all, I realize I just touched lightly on a few things and any questions are appreciated and will always be answered as best I can.
I appreciate this ....forum.
It's difficult when you have a knowledge, that is your ....job to share....
but no one to share it with because it's not part of the most common human paradigm. And to even speak of it makes you look deluded or just plain crazy.
What I think Nyght is seeing and calling "transmogrification" is actually the point where the wheel turns back upon itself...I call it Culmination in Form.
Everything you quoted Nyght as saying, has a level of validity...
how do I put this?
It has grown beyond it's simple Truth.
It has been overly embellished by mentality and is more like a parable then a clear statement of how it is.
Do not take any of those words or teachings at face value...
their merit and power lies in your ability to
translate the parables.
Gotta go
I see a lot to address here,
but I work from Home,
am 65 years old with a 7 year old....
and have a show on Sunday to get prepared for,
so don't have a lot of time.
Just working from home with a 7 year old,
and mine in particular......
is all consuming......
But, I was sort of led here, and we are responsible for what we know, and there are very few places I can share what I know and get even an inkling of understanding......
So I'll work on this in my spare time, he he, good one self..... what is spare time again.
Anyway, the subject of the Double alone is HUGE,
and I'm afraid there is just enough knowledge out there about it......
to confuse folks.....
and even in some cases put them in danger.
But to address all these things, I guess you would say requires a bit of a shift of the assemblage point.
It's been over 30 years since I ....experienced Don Juans books, so I might be short on the lingo, falling back on my old Tibetan Language for pretty much the same stuff.
I'm planning on getting some reading glasses as I haven't been able to find too many Large print Carlos books....and my eyes need help. so I'll catch up with that.
I see some very important...... points that need to be considered when discussing this,
and I see the ... obstacles that need to be overcome....
the obstacles in many cases caused by the fact that....
well, to put it nicely,
Carlos was a bit of an over mental idiot...
and he gleaned from
and threfore passed on from Don Juan
very much only according to his mental ability.
This is a common problem, people want to "figure it out" in their minds, study allied works, and compute the data they have inputted....
This stuff doesn't work that way.
Before we can really get to the "Construct" we'll have to address the difference between the Old sorcery and the new, because this was somewhat of a mis-understanding, or poorly computed data by Carlos.
The thing is we get the impression that the "old sorcery" was something from an earlier time, back in the Toltec or whatever days when things were different
before we new sorcerers became more enlightened.
But that isn't how it is.....
It all exists now, and what determines a persons place in that is simply their point in evolution.
Very few these days understand how human evolution works,
that it is a circular process,
not one of ascension, as in the old staircase analogy.
As the old Mystics said, first the circle turns one way....then returns back upon itself.
The "old sorcery" or whatever Carlos called it is what those on the first turn of the wheel employ,
and the "new sorcery" is what those on the reverse turn use.
And these are very different in Nature...and this is rarely addressed and Carlos and what I hear of some that have followed him, mish mash them all up so that...... it loses some usefulness for both types of sorcerers.
So the first and most important thing for students to learn is where they are on the wheel of evolution, otherwise their practice could be useless.....and or Dangerous.
This is for sure the case with what appears to be some ideas about the Double.
The old sorcery sought connection to the Double, believed it could aid them somehow..... their Direction you could say was one of cultivating the Double.
It is like any creation,
a building by piece being added to piece.....
and it's important to know that it is astral in nature and
....damn, there's things I can't say because they will just halt folks in their cogitating tracks......
The Double is created by all the energy and intention that goes into defining who we are within our description of the world, it is also co created by those who "know" us.
It's just basically a natural bi product of human evolution on the first turn of the wheel, for the Old Sorcerers.
For them to seek it out, and with it's "timeless" nature as you pointed out, they could possibly speed up their evolution (which bottom line is the goal of all sorcery, old and new) ....
But it's timelessness , hmmm.... well let's just say that our relationship with it dramatically changes when we become the New Sorcerers....
when we come to that point in evolution where our wheel reverses.
THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT.
The Double is created in astral and mental matter...
literally created out of all the energy that goes into defining us,
which was the task of the old sorcerers.....
And they perfected tweaking it and using it to connect with,
their Future Description (aiding their evolution).
(consider those words)
The New Sorcerers job is to dis mantle that description .
And this entails the dismantling of the Double,
well, actually that is just the natural bi-product of the Path.
I'm afraid Carlos was mostly drawn to the glamour of the power of the double and was himself on the first turn of the wheel, so the information he gleaned about the Double and passed along,
was only in regards to it's relationship with the old sorcery.
For a New Sorcerer to seek the double....is a disaster.
I mean we (new sorcerers) are here to dismantle the island,
to release the description....
and yet this is exactly what the Double represents.
It is energetically magnetized to "our collection",
to our description.
For the old sorcerers, because of it's "timelessness"
(which isn't the best word because it's existence depends solely upon what we and others submit to it in the process of our evolution, and it has an end point)...
it can only help us ..... culminate in our description.....
which is the goal of the old sorcerers....
which is the end point of the first turn of the wheel....
the epitome of what the old sorcery was meant to obtain.
But once we have done that,
once the wheel begins turning back upon itself,
we become the new sorcerers and our job now is basically the opposite of what it was before,
now we dismantle the description....
and the Double fades.
I think a lot of folks might mix up the Soul with the Double, because they are very similar.
Like you say the Double isn't an exact image, I mean it's an astral/mental reflection of us..... form in fact isn't really a matter of consideration.... We humans tend to get boggled up in the whole Form thing and lose sight of what motivates the form.
Well this is about all, I realize I just touched lightly on a few things and any questions are appreciated and will always be answered as best I can.
I appreciate this ....forum.
It's difficult when you have a knowledge, that is your ....job to share....
but no one to share it with because it's not part of the most common human paradigm. And to even speak of it makes you look deluded or just plain crazy.
What I think Nyght is seeing and calling "transmogrification" is actually the point where the wheel turns back upon itself...I call it Culmination in Form.
Everything you quoted Nyght as saying, has a level of validity...
how do I put this?
It has grown beyond it's simple Truth.
It has been overly embellished by mentality and is more like a parable then a clear statement of how it is.
Do not take any of those words or teachings at face value...
their merit and power lies in your ability to
translate the parables.
Gotta go